BAF BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIPS 2011 DATE & VENUE CONFIRMED

well said jason

no more replys to this thread please had a enough of it now..

LETS TALK ABOUT ARMWRESTLING.

Jason wrote:

I for one am dissapointed, professional sportsmen should conduct themselves in a far better manner even in private

In this thread i have seen threats, kneejerk responses and belittlement from people who in my opinion should know far better

Now i understand you guys are extremely passionate about the sport but you all know this is a public forum read by adults and children alike who may or may not be in the sport or looking to enter it

This thread has left a sour taste in my mouth

Jason
Well i for one would like to hear your comments on the topic its easy to say your little peice and rightly so, for my part iam sorry in the childish rants ive made,but as i keep stressing i do try and keep asking for postive views apart from about 4 people nothings being said i persume that every other of the 100 or so members of the site must be very happy and the 1,200+ views so far are people who are hooked on the topic and dont wish to express anything but love to read the pathtic thread it has surely become

Sorry Nick had already pressed the send button but i think this thread has only just started if people would chip in and postive things could still arise from it,but i understand it wont BACK SEAT drivers and all

Yes lets talk about arm wrestling.
I'm finished with this thread on the forum, if anyone wants to discuss
it with me then you can send me a p.m. or give me a phone.

Well said Mark

Once again Guys,

Why is anyone of the opinion that I need to give people a chance to take there ideas forward and generate interest in their regions etc.................it really puzzles me.

If Paul wants to do event write ups etc. then I have never stopped him from doing so, if anyone wants to sell DVD's of the UK regional events then..........hang on a minute doesn't Nick already do that.

The only events people can't film at are ARM WARS Super Series shows and they are nothing to do with the BAF whatsoever.

Keith Taylor for example just listened to what I had said and took the initiative upon himself to set up The Panthers and generate their own life blood..

As I explained in an earlier post the British Nationals is conducted within the framework of the EAF & WAF.

Thanks

Neil

KING EDWARD wrote:

Once again Guys,

Why is anyone of the opinion that I need to give people a chance to take there ideas forward and generate interest in their regions etc.................it really puzzles me.

If Paul wants to do event write ups etc. then I have never stopped him from doing so, if anyone wants to sell DVD's of the UK regional events then..........hang on a minute doesn't Nick already do that.

The only events people can't film at are ARM WARS Super Series shows and they are nothing to do with the BAF whatsoever.

Keith Taylor for example just listened to what I had said and took the initiative upon himself to set up The Panthers and generate their own life blood..

As I explained in an earlier post the British Nationals is conducted within the framework of the EAF & WAF.

Thanks

Neil

Hi Neil
no you have never stopped me doing so and have supported the idea ,i think things down the line of gotten all mixed up and were thinking things that really arent there,all i can say really is that clubs yes they can do has they wish but the topic is basically around the BAF when i put my ideas forward then i meant only to better a already good fed that has made countless people very happy by being honoured to pull in the fantastic tournaments you have put on for us grateful pullers and for that my m8 i thankyou.

When i mention the makeshift mag,dvds,membership,etc all this was meant to benifit the BAF by dvd sales,membership,merchandise,entrance fees and so on all the funds made would go to the BAF to help with silerware,insurance,tshirts etc and help you not be £212 down like you were for the british,if it could fund itself then surely this would be great for the BAF and the sport and each wrestler would be doing there little bit,aswel as trying to build up the local area.But for this to happen ther ewould need to be a elected panel to acheive it and each take on a certain area within the BAF

Venues iam not sure of the cost of the rooms you hire but i can get also some great venues for a tiny fee or not even at all,iam current speaking to pete hardy about a venue that would get us all excited and give us a rowdy crowd lol

i hope this explains things better as iam not great writing the things i want to say

Speaking as an outsider whom has an interest in the sport. My thoughts:

In references to committees and meetings:
If the physical turnout is a problem, perhaps it could be possible to conduct BAF meetings online in some way (on a website which has a majority agreement), and the chairman, as well as the secretary etc of each meeting is rotated in each of the meetings, that way everyone can attend in the comfort of their own home and the turnout would be high. Of course, the structure needs to be worked out, but perhaps it could be workable. This could be included in into the once or twice a year physical meetings (if there is currently such a thing). Perhaps even have the meeting on the day of a tourney, if scheduling/time permits.

Specific weigh-in times:
It was mentioned that people can weigh in at a day before the tournament. I don’t know if this is true as I am just an observer of sport, but if it is, weighing in at different times does bring an advantage to some if the weigh in is only conducted at one location... Therefore those nearest the location, will have an advantage... To address this issue, two approaches:
A) If the weigh-in is conducted on the day of competiton, then perhaps make more sections where you can weigh-in. Of course, more volunteers would be needed to conduct this.
B) If the weigh-in is conducted a day or two before - perhaps if there are senior officials on the board (a senior official and one other BAF member as another witness), then perhaps the competitor can weigh in at region closest to him, that way it makes it convenient for everyone, and no one is at an advantage. Having an early weigh in time on the day of tourney could be a nightmare, as people may be travelling by car on that day and might find it difficult to attend so early.

Shorter day:
Speaking from a spectators point of view, and perhaps the arm wrestlers would also agree with this, one thing spectators don’t like are to be kept waiting for the action to begin. Snooker suffers from this problem, where players spend all day looking around the table, rather than playing the shot (and the game is slow enough as it is)...and the equivalent for this in armwrestling is the dreaded set up time. The time it take for the arm wrestlers to align themselves in the correct set up position, and then to get in the correct hand position is way too long and needs to be addressed. By all means make a grand entrance up to the table and show your special talent if that includes being able to eat cigars or drinking whatever that guy drinks in ‘Over the Top,’ but spectators don’t like to wait for the action to begin once they are at the table. Something needs to be done to reduce the set up time, as this detracts from the sport and new watchers to the sport will quickly lose interest. It will also help shorten the day. Perhaps get some device - the same where they measure your feet for your shoe size (or something similar, like a vice) and place it over the hands of the armwrestlers, and then the referee lifts it up when the referee shouts ‘go’...but something needs to be done to quicken it up.

A few fairly good suggestions but also a few that aren't.
Neil i don't think anyone i really looking for your personal permission
to attempt some of these ventures m8, i think it's more a case for it to
be shown to have the backing and support of the B.A.F.

There were two points that you made Jerry that i don't agree with but
these are my personal views.
1st Weigh-in times.
I don't really care about weighing in at a designated time so this subject
will be of more importance to others.
I'm quite happy to turn up on the day and pull the class i weigh in for.
2nd Point
Jerry wrote:The time it take for the arm wrestlers to align themselves in the correct set up position, and then to get in the correct hand position is way too long and needs to be addressed.
The set up is just as important as the match, not only because it can contribute
greatly to the outcome of a match but also because if it's rushed or the ref
gives the go when a.w.'s aren't 100% ready your going to see serious injuries.
SAFETY 1st

Theres some creditable points there jerryarmmaster and ones working together could easily be put into place,also maybe if we can show that we as a fedaration are working in hormony and having all the polices in place needed national lottery funding could be a idea???

p.s espcially has my cousin has just got a job in there accounting department

hahaha

[quote="God of War"]
Neil i don't think anyone i really looking for your personal permission
to attempt some of these ventures m8, i think it's more a case for it to
be shown to have the backing and support of the B.A.F.

Mark i think you have pretty much got it bang on there,i think because Neil has undertaken all these duties on his own for such a longtime its almost cheeky to offer help,but for the BAF to move forward i think its a must to work together,a few numbers i puit together from the points i raised are

memberships 50 member £15 each =£750
BAF entrance fee £25=1,250
dvd sales 20 sales =£100
tshirt sales 20 sales making £5 per shirt =£100
TOTAL=£2,200

all these are more than acheivable we had more entries than that at this years british,alot more than 50 pullers,and the dvd sales and tshirt are modest at best and thats not counting anything else the panel could think of and use,with the money there the BAF could easily sustain its 1 tournment a year with money left over to build or use at the panels will,and best of all nobody needs be out of pocket again.

In terms of funding here are my ideas,

Senior membership £30 per year
Junior £15 per year
Annual club registration fee £50
Entry fee to nationals £20 both arms, £30 for non BAF members,
Entry fee to regional BAF sanctioned Open class events £15 both arms, £25 non members
Entry fee to regional BAF sanctioned novice events £7.50 both arms, £12 non members
Additional income to be generated from dvd, t-shirt, arm warmer sales etc

Members will be provided with a photo ID card to show status ( Pro, Novice) and gain discounts at events.


Funding raised to go straight into BAF pot for financing national championship, remuneration of refs at regional and national comps, subsidising clubs to help pay for local promotion, event organising, provision of trophies, up keep of BAF web site, etc

Most clubs charge a small fee to train weekly which helps the club raise funds for the registration.

Perhaps something to consider in a few years time from now... A quicker form of armwrestling...

I agree safety comes first, but most of the matches that take a long time, from what I have seen, take a long time to set up because they grip, grip and re-grip, and they move their shoulders slightly to gain advantage – a lot of this is to do with gaining a hand advantage than a safety issue. Professionals should be able to set up into a safe position in under five to ten seconds once at the table... Once they start to set up, perhaps a shorter time limit before they go into the straps, and when the referee gets the hands in the set up position just before the straps are put on, instead of putting on the straps, the referee calls go... If any player moves before then, the second referee should call a foul... Having three referees, one looking at each player and one looking at the hand set up, it should only take a few seconds to get into each a set position. And once each of the referees whom are observing your body movements and safety, adjust your shoulders and calls ‘player one hold’ (or player two hold), the player is not allowed to move his body. If he does, it’s a foul - that will stop people from constantly moving before the set up. As for the regrip issue, yes, the start position dictates a great deal of the outcome, but that’s just my point, from a spectator point of view, it just ain’t too appealing to the spectator to watch two opponents gripping and regripping constantly. If may be great from a player perspective, but for somebody watching from 40 metres away, they might be wondering, hey, how come these two guys haven’t got started and they can get tired of watching it very quickly... Set up is important in all sports, but even more important from a spectator viewpoint (with the exception of safety), is the time. In every sport, they look at how to speed up play, because that is vital in keeping the spectator interested... But as mentioned, possibly a shorter set up time before the straps, and at the moment just before the hands are set and the straps are to be put on, the referee calls go, as long as the players have not moved their body and a foul been committed... Call it a quicker format of armwrestling that is more spectator friendly...

Jerry your input is appreciated pal but lets see if you still stand by
this theory when you turn pro and you're standing across the table
from the likes of Neil Pickup, Alan Greaves, Paul Maiden, Marvin Palmer,
Andy Barker, Stuart Hall, Terry Ackers to name just a few.
Remember the 10 second rule then. ( Cause your a pro now)

Those sort of ideas are definitely attainable in England but i think Scotland
is unfortunately still crawling and can't yet stand.
It is with the support of the B.A.F. that these things can move forward.
Neil has done and continues to do an outstanding job on our behalf
and we mean no offence or disrespect by showing our support.

DaN that would generate some serious pounds,schilling and pence and over time maybe could send some wrestlers randomly drawn to comps around Europe to represent GB. Another comp we could look at adding would be a UKAC untied kingdom armsport champioships aswel as a English championships EAC English armwrestling championships that along with rossendale and the panthers would make a serious calender for us, and ofcourse the Scottish lads have there nationals to also supported by BAF

paul maiden wrote:

Fan that would generate some serious pounds,schilling and pence and over time maybe could send some wrestlers randomly drawn to comps around Europe to represent GB. Another comp we could look at adding would be a UKAC untied kingdom armsport champioships aswel as a English championships EAC English armwrestling championships that along with rossendale and the panthers would make a serious calender for us, and ofcourse the Scottish lads have there nations to also supported by BAF

I was going to suggest having an English one, good "excuse" for a comp, you beat me!

Mark Scotland wouldn't stand alone has it could easily fall under the BAF umbrella and clearly there would be 1 or more members from Scotland to voice the panel,if you want to sort out a training day one Sunday I will personally come and coach the session and we can talk more about it then

Hi Jerry, having initially read your post following prior responses to “THE MYSTERIOUS MOOCH” I was a little confused as to your sources of information however after reading your more recent posts everything has become far clearer, as it has become obviously apparent that you are sat on the perimeter of the sport with very little or no knowledge of its actual content, structure or governance.

I’m only going to write this once for universal consumption and reference and I must initially stress that I don’t have any interest in being drawn into a forum debates about the topics raised here, mainly due to the fact that you are some significant way behind myself and the rest of the global leadership of the sport in terms of your specific knowledge and understanding and unfortunately as such to “bring you up to speed” would take a massive amount of time. Also to put it simply with greater exposure to the reality of the sport, you would potentially arrive at a similar generic conclusion of your own volition.

Please note that my comments here are not meant to be in anyway derogatory, as I whole heartedly encourage the participation in and viewing of Armwrestling (arguably in fact more so than any other person in the World today) and my comments are purely statements of fact.

Each statement made here will be a short bulleted insight, linked to / behind which, I personally have an extraordinary amount of insight and background detail.

1.) The idea of holding committee meetings on the day of an event (& in fact a day prior or post the event) were covered briefly in an earlier post. In practice this was found to be less viable for those involved than holding a stand alone session specifically for purpose.

2.) Weigh-in Schedules : The idea of holding separate weigh-ins in various areas of the country, would be totally contradictory to the codes of practice outlined by both the European and World Governing bodies of Amateur Armwrestling or indeed by those of any other strength or combat sport that I’ve ever encountered or been involved in Worldwide (N.B. if you were aware of my specific background you would also be aware of the fact that there have been / are a great variety of them both at National & indeed International level). The intention was actually linked to weigh-ins being open to abuse, this approach would actually significantly increase the likelihood of such occurrences. An immediate issue reference would be the fact that at all National / EAF or WAF events sanctioned globally a single tournament scale (or pair of scales tared) is utilized in order to ensure a level playing field for all athletes, this would be impossible to achieve via weigh-ins in multiple locations.

In all IOC or Professional Sports at any level of organization athletes are required to weigh-in at a specific time or times pre allocated by the event organizers / athletic commission or governing body. In the case of Amateur Armwrestling at EAF & WAF competition this takes place two days ahead of athletes commencing their specific competition. This is the regulatory system endorsed by the BAF and as such all weigh-ins conducted for this years BAF British National Championships were 100% accurate official and correct in terms of the manner in which they were conducted.

3.) Shorter Day : Main Draw amateur Armwrestling by its very nature is unfortunately NOT spectator friendly nor is it meant to be such. It is there for the fundamental purpose of ensuring that exponents of the sport of Armwrestling are able to practice their sport in the most effective possible environment under the correct rules and regulations. These rules and regulations are structured in such a way as to facilitate this and not to cater for requirements of the non participant viewing audience. My advise to anyone concerned about being a dedicated spectator of main draw Armwrestling would be two fold : firstly learn enough about the sport to appreciate the finer points and specifics of the set ups, to the point where they become less boring (I am in this position and can happily watch 10 hours straight of main draw Armwrestling with very little trouble) or more practically buy a highlights DVD of the event where set ups are eliminated.

Also try the following tips : be selective about your weigh classes ie. which ones you really want to watch. Remember as your not actually competing ! you don’t actually need to be there for every match, where as the athletes involved have potentially trained for YEARS to get to that ONE MOMENT ! they therefore should be given a chance to Armwrestle and not be fouled out for taking slightly longer to set up and so that viewers who don’t appreciate whats actually happening can get to see another match in which something else that they didn’t actually fully understand………happened FASTER !!! Get into televised Professional Armwrestling on Europsort for example (another one I facilitated) which is far more spectator friendly……..edited TV Armwrestling is an AMAZING THING……no set ups…….less fouls……better Battles………its as though it had been made with spectators in mind……….you will like it FAR more, I promise.

Also for info the referees grip is currently enforced after 30 seconds at EAF & WAF level, mainly to allow 1,700 athletes to compete in a single pin double elimination system across 22 individual weight classes on six tables in the space of a single week ! it actually sucks in my opinion, for the reasons I specified earlier and I’ve seen many EXCELLENT Armwrestlers in tears after they have sweat and bled for a year or more only to be fouled out at the National, European or World Championships by an over zealous or inexperienced Referee. Again with respect….TRUST ME you would NEED to live that to truly appreciate it Jerry.

Devices : Armwrestling doesn’t need any modification by mechanical devices aimed at speeding up or changing it into something it is not ! It is what it is Jerry, Armwrestling is THE most exciting, Beautiful and complex Combat Power Sport on Earth. If you or anyone else wishes to be a true fan of the Sport then don’t wish it to change in order to suit you but rather learn its complexity and its diversity, seek to understand it more fully and accept it for what it truly is. Armwrestling is not WWE, Armwrestling is NOT “Over the Top” either “Over the Top” was a just a film, made in order to quickly reflect a few core elements of a wonderful sport to the wider audience, encompassing both one time casual observers and the sports REAL fans alike. “Over the Top” was a Hollywood film, the Armwrestling that we are discussing and referring to here on this forum is REAL Armwrestling. The two should not be confused.

I hope that in time you will learn enough to establish a wide appreciation of the SPORT of Armwrestling, you seem really keen and enthusiastic which is great and I see that your avitar / name reads Arm Master however be under no illusions at all you are not yet by any means an Arm Master, you are in fact a newcomer to Armwrestling however intelligent and ultimately well intentioned you might be.

Look at the wood and you may see the trees

Thanks

Neil Pickup
President British Armwrestling Federation
28 x British Armwrestling Champion
2 x EAF European Middleweight Champion 2000/01
2 x WAF World Middleweight Champion 2000/01

leo wrote:

Hey guys the BAFC was my first comp, it was an awesome day and a masterclass in armwrestling, congrats to all who entered and a big thanks to neil pickup .......................... Bring on the novice ?

Hey Leo,

Forgive my ignorance in not acknowledging your post earlier, it was GREAT to see new lads like yourself getting your feet wet and its fantastic to have you on the circuit mate.

I really hope that you progress well in your training and I look forward to seeing you climbing up through the ranks in your weight class in years to come.

Very best of luck mate

Cheers

Neil

Paul Maiden wrote:)Mark Scotland wouldn't stand alone has it could easily fall under the BAF umbrella and clearly there would be 1 or more members from Scotland to voice the panel,if you want to sort out a training day one Sunday I will personally come and coach the session and we can talk more about it then

Thanks very much pal, again it's encouraging for me to have someone
of your experience and reputation offer their own time to make a journey
to Scotland to train with us.
If your able to make it up on Thursday we'll be able to talk about it then.

Very well spoken Neil, even i appreciated your candour.