BAF BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIPS 2011 DATE & VENUE CONFIRMED

Hi Guys

Just an important date heads up WAY AHEAD of time !

Based on the success of this years British Nationals held at the Crofters Hotel in Cabus, Nr. Garstang I can confirm that next years BAF British Nationals will be held back at The Crofters on Sunday 28th August.

This should allow EVERYBODY to make the necessary arrangements in order to attend and hopefully therefore the attendance and the competition will be even better than it was this year.

Did people prefer the one day format or would you like to revert to two days ?

Also what about Saturday 27th next year or Sunday 28th any specific preference for people ? (Steven Kirlew cannot do Sundays due to his religious beliefs !)

Cheers

Neil

KING EDWARD wrote:

Hi Guys

Just an important date heads up WAY AHEAD of time !

Based on the success of this years British Nationals held at the Crofters Hotel in Cabus, Nr. Garstang I can confirm that next years BAF British Nationals will be held back at The Crofters on Sunday 28th August.

This should allow EVERYBODY to make the necessary arrangements in order to attend and hopefully therefore the attendance and the competition will be even better than it was this year.

Did people prefer the one day format or would you like to revert to two days ?

Also what about Saturday 27th next year or Sunday 28th any specific preference for people ? (Steven Kirlew cannot do Sundays due to his religious beliefs !)

Cheers

Neil

The one day format is long but a must i think if we are to keep the numbers in both classes as left normally suffers due to it being held the day after,this also helps people with any money issues ,work,or child arrangments,if we are to keep the same weekend to allow Steve to compete maybe we could do the sat or the bank holiday monday??? with almost a years notice any of the above issues can be solved and there is no excuse,barring family crisis.

I think Paul's hit the nail on the head.
Saturday or Sunday suits me but it would definitely be more beneficial
to hold the event in one day.
It's because of that i was able to compete left handed.

Another way I would see To benfit the compitition is to make smaller the weight classes eg 70 80,90,100,100+ or 65,75,85,95,95+ this IMO would create
1 better supported weight catergorys
2 more excitment
3 shorter day
4 this is with respect but honesty) more compititive classes and the feeling of winning the trophy and not getting it because there is only 3 in a class

these are just a few benfits that I can think of iam sure there are more,this also has been used in other countrys sucessfully,also we don't have to worry about qualification for the worlds as not to many people go and not enough to fight for places also the British doesn't automatically count anyway.

I won my first British with only 3 in the class and altho I had to beat alan greaves and dave martin to claim it the satisfaction wasn't there, but 2003 12 people attended that class and well I remember every pull, this is by no way to discredit anybodys title just as a armwrestling fan and puller I'd like to see stacked classes and not mainly knowing the winner before the event

Have to agree with Paul
especially if it makes it a shorter day, the comp was fantastic
but very looooong day, must say the kids were very well behaved

For me; 65,75,85,95,95+ in a 1 day format is the way to go.

Top day!

God of War wrote:

I think Paul's hit the nail on the head.
Saturday or Sunday suits me but it would definitely be more beneficial
to hold the event in one day.
It's because of that i was able to compete left handed.

I agree, I'd find it hard to attend both if it was across 2 days

WELL 1st post on ere really enjoyed sun was awesome but a few suggestions from a spectator point of view

1 all weigh ins to be done on THE day as i heard of people weighin in 2 days before which is redicoulous at best,either weigh in on the day or dont wresltle no if ans or buts as it smacks of a fix
2 draw to be done by an independent person NOT by 2 competitors
3 earlier start time

sort out these things as it offers more credability

ps imagine floyd mayweather weighin in 2 days before manny paki how sorry cant spell surname lol

Interesting points m8 but since arm wrestling competitions held the world
over permit weighing in a few day before the event, e.g. 'The Worlds'
it's very unlikely holding a weigh-in on the same day in the U.K. will have a
knock on effect.
If arm wrestlers want to get used to the system that is already in use globaly
the best place to start is at home.
I for one think you raised some valid points but i'll leave it to the more
experienced pro's like Neil Pickup, Paul Maiden, Nick Hall or Terry Ackers to give you reasons why it is so.

I no that worlds is the longest of weighing in but depending what class you pull this could be as short as one day or at most 4 if you were only to wrestle senior right hand,Europeans is 2 maxium and most comps around the globe weigh the night before as did I and others at the british,people did weigh in before that but I won't throw names as I was happy to weigh at the sloted time, if iam to be asked is if fair answers no everybody should weigh in between sloted times in front of witnesses but we don't always have this luxury,iam sure Neil will address this point and correct it has he tried very hard before and after the comp to suit peoples needs,as far as the draw perhaps computor software can be the answer lol

The weigh in the day before isn't to give an advantage to any one person, it simply means that any athlete who has dieted hard to make weight can get some carbs and protein in before the comp and stand a chance of doing well. I for one am an example of this, i cut from 101kg to weigh in at 89.9kg on the Saturday. Yes there were guys who weighed in before this but this is no different to the UFC or any boxing organisation. Oscar DeLaHoya cut so much weight for his fight with Paquiao that he was on a saline drip to re-hydrate before the fight. If we set this as the format then ther is no excuse or reason to not make weight in a years time.

I agee with what of my associates are talking about but i don't think
when we can weigh in should be of any real concern.
Our new member did however raise a couple of interesting points regarding
the legitimisy of weigh-ins.
I believe Neil as president of the B.A.F. would be the the first to back up
any fair ideas in which a secure weigh-in system could be put into place.
It is however important to note that this weigh-in system was put into place
by Neil to accommodate a request made be several arm wrestlers.
Perhaps it wasn't the best way to let competitors weigh-in before a comp
but it was the fairest.
Neil permitted this in replyance to a request at the last minute and everybody
competing had the option to attend.
In the future perhaps a more solid system could be put into effect but
with regerds to this particular event, if anyone had a complaint to make it should have been done before the start of the competition.
I understand Mr Mooch you were watching but if the pullers don't complain.........

As long as it's advertised that you can weigh in the night before well in advance so everyone knows this and can take advantage of it if need be, such as Dan with his crazy dieting schemes (just kidding hahahaha) then it's fair imo.

I believe Neil and Colin were using the computer to randomly draw names too.

I think an earlier start would be a bit better but I'm just splitting hairs really

just my observations really

just seems the weigh ins system is open to abuse if u ask me (but if its well known then EVERYBODY could take advantage)
draw should be done by an independent

apart from that i loved it

ps is there no board or comittee that decides these things like other sports

dan wrote:

The weigh in the day before isn't to give an advantage to any one person, it simply means that any athlete who has dieted hard to make weight can get some carbs and protein in before the comp and stand a chance of doing well. I for one am an example of this, i cut from 101kg to weigh in at 89.9kg on the Saturday. Yes there were guys who weighed in before this but this is no different to the UFC or any boxing organisation. Oscar DeLaHoya cut so much weight for his fight with Paquiao that he was on a saline drip to re-hydrate before the fight. If we set this as the format then ther is no excuse or reason to not make weight in a years time.

could have a special drip bag class i suppose lol

dan wrote:

The weigh in the day before isn't to give an advantage to any one person, it simply means that any athlete who has dieted hard to make weight can get some carbs and protein in before the comp and stand a chance of doing well. I for one am an example of this, i cut from 101kg to weigh in at 89.9kg on the Saturday. Yes there were guys who weighed in before this but this is no different to the UFC or any boxing organisation. Oscar DeLaHoya cut so much weight for his fight with Paquiao that he was on a saline drip to re-hydrate before the fight. If we set this as the format then ther is no excuse or reason to not make weight in a years time.

but do u not think someone who has been carbing up and eating for 2 whole days has a massive advantage over lets say you who weighs in on the day because its a power sport mate

THE MOOCH wrote:

just my observations really

just seems the weigh ins system is open to abuse if u ask me (but if its well known then EVERYBODY could take advantage)
draw should be done by an independent

apart from that i loved it

ps is there no board or comittee that decides these things like other sports

There was a comittee back in 1999 but it didnt last to long after that,Neil is the president and was voted in by the wrestlers in 1999,there was a membership at 1 time a £15 annual fee but this hasnt been done for quite some time,but with that fee came a news article the member would get with a write up of events and also you would get money off the fee of the british,people of these postions are no longer in the sport and thus things never really carried forward.

Firstly this response is to The Mooch :

I have no idea who you are however I do understand to things from what you have written in your initial post.

1. You are not a competitor but you were a spectator of the event.
2. You believe that the event was rigged or fixed in some way to benefit some individual ? (you haven’t said who specifically) due to the athletes being able to weigh-in a different times.
3. You also believe that the draw was rigged in order to benefit certain athletes.
4. You believe the whole thing “Slaps of a Fix” and are not a very positive frame of mind about the way in which the British was conducted.

As you have understandably provided no indication as to who you are or indeed whom you are referring to, it’s very hard to give specific feedback accurately in response to your accusations however I’d honestly love to hear your opinions and the justification for those opinions as to who exactly who would be more impartial than Colin Taylor who made the Draw for this years British ? particularly when you accept that we are in a room full of Armwrestlers and Armwrestlers family and friends who have travelled to watch them compete and when Colin was merely blindly picking numbers pre assigned to Armwrestlers in each class. The fact of the matter is it wouldn't make a scrap of difference who made the draw BUT Colin likes to do it and has fun doing it.

I really cannot see how that system is open to abuse when done correctly, unless of course you are stating that the draw was blatantly corrupt ie. purposely cheated (which by default means that I cheated END OF) I would actually have preferred you just said that if its what you believe to be honest. Either way I am very sorry you feel that way and can only assure you that you are 100% wrong in your assumptions.

Out of curiosity have you got any specific justification for feeling that I purposely rigged the draw to assist certain individuals ? who were they ? did it work ? if so Cool…..I did a great job there ? if not I guess I need to figure out more effective ways of cheating.

Just a few points I will add to which if you actually pulled you might appreciate more fully, firstly weight is not really the most important factor in an Armwrestling match, leverage is far more critical for an athlete in any particular class. By leverage I am referring to the athletes length of forearm and size of hand etc.

Secondly the weight classes were small enough at the British to ensure that however the draw had been done there would have been very little advantage afforded to any athlete, this would be far more critical in a very large weight class where there was a far greater depth of tough competitors, in this scenario it would really come down to a Battle of attrition as the rounds progressed.

This year I honestly cannot think of any example of an athlete being tied up in a long grueling match and being subsequently to exhausted to progress as he / she otherwise would have done ie. having then lost to a less capable opponent.

I do get frustrated by the “always looking for an easier route” mentality which is so frequently displayed by Armwrestlers, the truth is there were no fixes, there were no hard luck stories to speak of at this years event, the draw was not rigged and never has been, sometimes you are good enough that day and you win sometimes you were good enough BUT for whatever reason the luck is against you and you loose other times you simply came up a little short and you loose.

If you are interested about fair and not fair by far a bigger concern would be the use of performance enhancing drugs in the sport and no we don’t drug test at this point.

I cannot say that I appreciate your comments mate because I honestly don’t and despite the negativity that you appear to have conjured up in your general opinions I actually felt that The British Nationals was extremely successful and I was very happy to see so many knew lads coming through the ranks this year and performing well. The only grey from the event for myself was the few injuries that were suffered by promising athletes like Paul Waters and the returning Paul Maiden, both of whom I wish a speedy recovery.

The event is far from perfect, the organization is far from perfect, that I am EXTREMELY APPRECIATIVE of and definitely do accept and appreciate that (they are also not too bad either). With investment of additional resource both financial and otherwise numerous things could be improved. The rigged, fixed or similar thing however I neither appreciate nor acknowledge and resent whole heartedly

Regards

Neil

KING EDWARD wrote:

Hi Guys

Just an important date heads up WAY AHEAD of time !

Based on the success of this years British Nationals held at the Crofters Hotel in Cabus, Nr. Garstang I can confirm that next years BAF British Nationals will be held back at The Crofters on Sunday 28th August.

This should allow EVERYBODY to make the necessary arrangements in order to attend and hopefully therefore the attendance and the competition will be even better than it was this year.

Did people prefer the one day format or would you like to revert to two days ?

Also what about Saturday 27th next year or Sunday 28th any specific preference for people ? (Steven Kirlew cannot do Sundays due to his religious beliefs !)

Cheers

Neil

The people who were elected committee back in 1999 soon realized that when you actually had to drive to the (rotating meetings all over the country) when your wife had planned a day out with the kids...........it wasn't actually quite as much fun as they had expected also they had very limited success doing their assigned projects to bring to the next quarterly meeting often only Mick Holland and myself of the elected individuals from around the country actually ended up attending as all to often "something just came up" at the last minute which was not too much fun when WE had driven four hours South and were the only two who actually showed (this happened far more than once) we also came up with the old meeting on the night before and day of the event scenarios BUT once again when actually put into practice, far too often people felt it was hampering their relative performance / focus at the event itself and often wanted out, they didn't really want to come early or stay late after the events when it came to the crunch.

I've got to be honest as far as the President of the BAF thing goes, were it not for my GENUINE LOVE for the sport I've dedicated the majority of my life too and people like THE MOOCH'S GENUINE INDIFFERENCE to it, I'd knock it all on the head in a heartbeat.

Its a serious burden rather than a blessing, made even more so by none Armwrestlers like yourself THE MOOCH.

People don't even like to assist with referreeing at events for Christ sake all of you guys owe a MASSIVE thanks to those individuals who do assist and risk their own degree of focus and subsequent performance by doing so, clear in the knowledge that I'll have tried to rig their draw and some BASTARD weighed in a day earlier and is now full of Carbs (THE DEFINING EDGE IN A POWER SPORT AS EVERYONE KNOWS).

One of my particular favourites is the willingness of people to attend the 6 hour Congress Meetings EAF & WAF when they are at Europeans and Worlds when they are tired from travelling and trying to stay focussed ready for competing or loosing weight prior to the event so they too can FIX THE OUTCOME ( the B*stards ) Everyone just JUMPS at the the opportunity to attend those meetings I end up doing it and meeting everyone around midnight back at the Hotel when they have all chilled out all evening.............I JUST LOVE THE CONGRESS MEETINGS live for them.

Instead I actually tend to throw decisions out to the Armrestlers themselves and try to get opinions by speaking to them directly then based on a combination of my own pretty extensive experience and the responses and opinions I've received, I then try to set up things in accordance with the opinions of the majority on BAF matters.

As was clearly illustrated by the questions posed in my original post and similarly in the one relating to the date of the British this year

Cheers

Neil

right my repost

FIRST of all i have accused no one of cheating just said it WAS open to abuse and saw flaws and just said what i heard and saw
2nd i really enjoyed the comp and will come to a lot more as i was hooked
3rd my understaniding is there was 2 weigh in times and ANYONE who weighed in before these alloted times has CHEATED AND SHOULD DENOUNCE THERE TITLE AS would in ANY other sport

apart from that its a great sport and shall continue to watch it

JUST MY OPINION THATS ALL
PLUS IF weight is not important then WHY is there any weight classes at all

Weight Classes are important to some and less so to others from their own mental perspective.

I can only comment personally, from my own perspective and in my case had it not been for two factors ie.
1.) The opportunity to pull the rejuvinated "BullDog" Lee Holland, which I found very interesting / exciting as he is a very credible opponent when in shape.
2.) Paul Maiden personally asking me to pull the 100's to give it more depth alongside Gary Rickett and himself.
I'd have actually sacked off the sauna and just pulled in the Supers against the bigger men Alan, Marvin, Charlie and Stephen. For me Armwrestling has always been about a challenge and pulling against the toughest opponents you are able to, win, loose or draw. By doing so you improve and you are able to gauge how good you are any one time. Its for precisely that reason that I've put myself down to pull in the Supers in next years British Pro Super Series event despite the fact that in the meantime I also plan on dropping back to 90-95kg in weight. I am actually stronger when I am lighter as it indicates that I have been training hard and THATS what makes the man stronger, I know countless weak Fatties, I'm weaker when I'm my fatter self.

In terms of the generic question "does weight actually matter in Armwrestling ?"

Strength and Power matter for sure and therefore at World level, where there is often no spare on the athletes involved (in terms of excess body weight) then sure its often a fair assumption that these two elements (ie. weight & power) may be intrinsically linked to a certain extent.

What REALLY DOES MATTER are the levers of the athlete involved and it is therefore often the case that a very well conditioned athlete of a higher natural body weight, may very well posess a genetically larger frame and therefore as such would have larger levers (ie. longer forearms, bigger hands).

As for people having cheated and renouncing their British Titles.......well their you go, your off again aren't ya, it seems that you just can't help yourself THE MOOCH (at the start of your post you hadn't been accusing anyone of anything ! of course you hadn't..........you were not sayin, and only just sayin etc. etc.) bottom line is mate, you haven't really thought anything through at all, you really need to wind your neck in and give your head a wobble. Think about the variables and the why's before you start bonfires.

Just cut the Piss, Wind and Bollocks mate, who are you, who exactly do ya think got cheated ? by who and why ?

Neil

NEVER said anyone cheated just my obvservations,i said IF ANYONE weighed in before the alloted times then they cheated, only the guilty know if they cheated


thats all

as for whom i am lets just say im the stig of the arm wrestling world

AS for people assisting in refereeing id love to have a go as i will never be a puller with my drumstick forearms lol

Well stig from where i'm sitting it sounds like you've been informed of all
these goings on by a bitter third party, either that or you feel mentally powerful
when speaking from the shadows.

It's not normal behaviour for a first time spectator to suddenly join the
busiest arm wrestling forum in britain and have such an insight into the
background of one event.
It's therefore only logical to assume that you are sympathetic to someone
elses complaints. Someone with a background in the sport.
Either that or your an arm wrestler who's trying to save face.
Either way it's pointless to offend others, especially if your understanding
is limited.
By all means ask questions as to why things were done a certain way, that's
what the forum's for after all.
Your comments may not have named names but they do sound like they
are directed at individuals in an attempt to smear them in some way.
If we want to complain we'll do it beforehand, not after and certainly not after taking part. Very childish.

Wow, some strong words there MOOCH. My point of view is that its ok to voice your opinion by all means but at least know what your talkin about first and have the balls to identify yourself