Supplements - at what point do they become 'cheating'?

I'm on a couple of supps at the moment (creatine Ethel ester and super protein with WPI, WPC and colostrum) which support my training and recovery.

At what point does taking supplements become cheating in armwrestling?

At what point do people say 'he only won because he was taking creatine/colostrum/ZMA/Tribulus/Glutamine' or whatever it might be?

And what are you taking?

This is a subject many people have views on, but i see it as a level playing field, every one of us has the same levels of access to supplements, not withstanding financial restrictions, it's just a matter of making the decision to use them.

As far as i'm concerened, as long as the supps being taken are not banned substances or prohibited on the IOC list, then no amount of them constitutes cheating, with regards to things like creatine, it's a naturally occuring substance in red meat and is also created in our own muscles as one of the 3 energy systems our body uses when exercising, then we move onto ZMA which is zinc and magnesium, again minerals essential to body function.

Glutamine is a conditionally essential amino acid, in other words it is made in the body and is utilised in repair of muscle fibres, colostrum and other protein derivatives are utilised by the muscles, more specifically their amino acids they contain are used to re build muscle fibres that have been torn during workouts.

Natural herbs like tribulus are touted to increase testosterone levels, however there isn't enough research indicating that it actually increases free testosterone levels significantly enough to have a huge impact. If you are looking for a testosterone boooster, i suggest 3 grams of D Aspartic Acid daily as clinical trials have shown that males taking it exerienced upto 48% increase in gh levels over subjects using a placebo.

With regards to your supplemnting of CEE (creatine ethel esther), Steve, i would recommend you swap to a ph corrected form of creatine called Kre Alkalyn, the reason being that when ingested, creatine has to be be broken down and it's ph needs changing before it can be used by the body, unfortunately this leaves a by product called creatinine which is toxic to the body and lost as a waste product. When you use CEE the effective dose your body can actually utilise is about 5% of the amount ingested, hence needing a loading phase and fairly high doses thereafter. Ph corrected products have a 100% uptake, so you don't need to load or dose highly.

I myself use a variety of supplements including whey and carbs, D Aspartic Acid, Tauro Test from Anabolic Designs and Grenade fat burners.

Good reply Dan...you're the "professor" when it comes to supplements! Hows that shop idea going? You should do that you know!

Thanks Ryan, the shop is a no go, shop rentals in Cambridge are rediculous, and with vat at 20% i'd need to sell at least £12000 a week just to see a little bit of profit, the start up capital is just too much aswell. So for now, i'm focused on building my PT business, and training for armwrestling.

I agree with Dan,

Engin says we need to be taking every legal supplement available. Legal meaning IOC standards. This is obvious imo.

Dan, I did some research into the D Aspartic Acid and although there is the evidence you quoted there is also evidence that it leads to an increase in estrogen production, Is there anything you can do about this?

I really rate evening primrose oil for a natural testosterone boost. I also take whey & multivits because I can't afford proper food!

...hehe it's been a long day

Nick, I think Dan should run a supplements corner on the forum...

Dan, what's good to counter the cortezone released in the blood after training?

Matt, i've not found much in the way of evidence backing the claim that DAA raises oestrogen as a side effect, there are a few sites that claim this to be so but the overwhelming evidence points to the positive, besides if there is a small increase it's only due to the body trying to find it's natural balance.

Steve, the best way to counteract cortisol is to reduce the time you train, it is a stress hormone released if the body detects it is being harmed, and this also counts for when you have intolerances to foods, your body doesn't like what's happening so triggers its' releasel, which in turn triggers the storage of subcutaneous fat.
In short, try to keep your strength training to a maximum of 45 minutes, this will reduce the release of this catabolic hormone, what you can do is start to supplement with anti catabolic supplements such as ZMA.
To be honest though, if you train hard, eat right, and get the appropriate amount of rest you will see gains in both strength and size.

When there on the WADA list

paul maiden wrote:

When there on the WADA list

Where's the WADA list for everyone to see Paul?

Hi Steve, go to this link and then to the 2012 download
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/World-Anti-Doping-Program/Sports-and-Anti-Doping-Organizations/International-Standards/Prohibited-List/