Novice or Pro

Hey guys,

Quick question for y'all...

What is the difference between a novice and a pro? Where/what is that line that you cross that makes you too good to compete in novice events.

I have my opinions but would like to hear from you guys before I share them.

cheers,

Hi matey, from what i can gather the only thing that has a direct influence on your novice to professional status, is winning the British novice.
There have been a lot of discussions on here about this topic, i won't go into detail but a lot of people have conflicting opinions about it.

If you've even seen an aw table you're a "pro"

I think this is an important decision.

My experience which isn't as much as the Neil Pickups of this world but is still very good is that without a taste of success people do not stay in this sport. I was lucky my first competition was the British juniors after 3 weeks of training which I won. There was no way I was ever going to completely leave armwrestling after that. 2 years later I was at the world championships in Canada and beating people like Tony Leigh. Those victories and that feeling of progression kept me coming back.

Novices need to see that the hard work is getting them somewhere but when they attend competitions they could be against people who have 2-3 years experience of competition level armwrestling and are blown away. My experience is that those people who train hard and go and get smashed by "novices" is that those people never rarely recover and continue in the sport.

Now, when we have someone new at MK we make sure they understand that the first comp is just for experience and don't expect too much which is a terrible thing to say but it might just keep them training.

My point is the purpose of splitting novice and pros is to limit the amount of experience, technical ability and power in the novice category to give new comers a chance to taste success in the sport. By keeping people novice or allowing experienced armwrestlers to pull in that class we are hindering the development of these guys, both the experienced "novice" and the true novice alike.

I do not think the previous discussions ended with an actionable decision from someone with authority, so maybe we should have it again and get an action from it that every BAF member will adhere to.

In organising the MK comp the hardest thing has been to get a grasp for what is a novice...we want the comp to be a pure novice event but the word novice doesn't seem to have a BAF definition on it yet and that is what I would like to see.

In terms of where the previous discussion ended afaik;

Anyone who hasn't won the British Novice, and/or hasn't been told by Neil they need to step up to Pro (as has happened with a few people who didn't win the novice but beat established pros in other comps) is considered a "Novice" and is allowed to pull novice events, at least in the context of BAF events...

I think Keith follows similar lines with the Preston comp too

Was wondering this myself so will be interested to hear everyone thoughts.

If someone has been training for years but just havn't entered any competitions are they still a novice?
If someone has been training for a week and wins a competition does that mean they are then classed as a pro or just a good novice?

Interesting where the line will be drawn.

hmm if its that you have to win a novice comp then id be classed as a novice..I think its quite a difficult one..people make their own rules up and I think that BAF maybe need to make the rules clear as it's wide open to interpretation. This is the way I see it:

1. if you have become top 3 in the country
2. if you have won a novice comp...
3. if you have been armwrestling/competing (inc training) >2 years

If you meet rules 1 OR 2 then you are pro. This is my interpretation only. I guess these rules make sense because of genetics - some people can be so much better than others genetically with no real training involved who have only been armwrestling for just a few weeks...and they enter a comp and do really well. But then - saying that, you could enter a comp with noone really in it - so rules 1/2 dont apply...so this would have to be gauged on if your weight class has more than 3 competitors...? In this case its a time based thing i.e. rule 3 comes into play! But then of course you could meet rule 3 but not do very well in any competition...in which case its a hard to gauge!

It's pretty complicated so I can understand why there is no real clear BAF rules...

I more or less agree. For what its worth I think a top 3 spot at the pros, or win at any open comp should make you a pro permanently, as well as the existing rule re winning the novice nationals. I don't think you can put a time limit on it though. as people will just bend the truth re how long theyve been training. But of course this is up to neil

IMO as long you will not decide to take part in the pro event as long you are novice.

In Poland is regulation that from the moment when you decided to take part in the pro event then automaticly your are not longer a novice.
It does not matter what place you took in that event. 1st or last. It was your choice, you decided to close one door and open other.

In Poland the pro events are: Polish PRO Nationals and Polish Cup.

To take part in one of them you must be affiliated in the club, club must be registered in FAP, your name must be mentioned in the official letter sent to FAP from the club before both events.

Regards
TW

Interesting to hear what happens in Poland, thanks Tomasz.

Matt, I would encourage you to be very clear on the rules & regs BEFORE the MK comp. Please just stick to your guns, changing on the day would be completely BENT!

Ref your rules...
1 OR 2 - totally agreed
3 is harder to define, but I agree in principle.

Please bear in mind the rules will affect the numbers competing, and therefore impact on the commercials.

Good luck in organising & competing.

I have seen this question asked many times, but I think to help people who are good novices, but not in the same league as Pro's, an Intermediate class could be a good answer.

The Novice class would be used for new comers and then once you become more familiar with the sport and make gains, you move to the Intermediate class.

Just my thoughts that's all.

Martin.

Just incase anyone else is having difficulty understanding...this topic has NOTHING to do with the MK comp.

The criteria set for the MK comp next week is set. What I want to see is an actually decision made that ALL BAF clubs adhere to in the future, I would hate to see what we have in the USA where armwrestling politics destroys the sport. I would like to see a set program for development within the sport but one that is BAF approved and that is adhered to by ALL BAF member clubs.

Until it has been discussed and a decision has been made it will be under interpretation and different comps can have different rules. This time we have our set rules as mentioned earlier but hopefully by the next one we will have a national criteria which MKAF as a BAF club will adhere to.

Thanks,

Sorry if there was any confusion.