Novices challenging pros to supermatches.

Should a "pro" accept a challenge from a novice?

As someone who constantly wants to test myself, i always sought to challenge those stronger than me and never pulled a novice again after making the step up to pro (except in main draw open events)

In my opinion, no pro should be taking a challenge from a novice, here are my reasons.

1, If you feel you have attained the strength and skill to start pulling open class then what will you gain by pulling someone of a lower strength and skill level?
2, You win the match, well at the end of the day you are supposed to, again what can you gain from winning a match you're expected to?
3, You lose, which either means you're not the wrestler you think you are and should maybe stay pulling the novices or the novice is of a much higher level than they claim to be and should not be pulling novices.
4, You cannot psychologically go full power against someone you know to be weaker than you, if you do go full power then you are obviously anxious that they could be stronger than you and are worried that you will lose.
5, As a pro you should be seeking to beat those at your level, if you duck other pro's but take matches against novices, you should not be pulling pro.

Conversely a novice that feels they are capable of beating a pro in a supermatch should perhaps not be pulling novice comps anymore.
If you feel you have progressed to a point that you have the skill and strength to challenge a pro, then you should be thinking hard about moving up and pulling open class. If you feel you aren't ready for pro's then you should not challenge anyone outside the novice ranks.

The whole point of a novice division is to safely encourage and develop armwrestlers so that they can make the transition to open class or pro level without anyone being worried for their safety and to allow those that don't want to go any further to stay at a level that they are comfortable with.

I also suggest that that organisers of supermatches only allow novice vs novice, pro vs pro.

Obviously we are limited in this country for a deep pro division but you have to look at yourself as a competitor and think seriously about whether you should take such a match.
I'm not seeking to offend anyone, just merely offering an opinion.

Dan

Hi
Dan hope all is well?

What do you divine as pro? I have my way of thinking and it's best not to make it to known thus hurting feelings :-)
And also do you believe a guy walking in of the street can beat a pro or top novice and should be able too?

Hi Paul, i'm good thanks.
Like everyone here I use the term pro in a very loose sense,
I would classify the levels as such,

Pro, any puller capable of a top 5 place at any open draw competition in the UK,
Elite, someone who would be a contender for top 3 honours and worlds medal places,
Intermediate, Top 10, but never better than 6th
Novice, new or with minimal ability but training to improve. Hasn't yet achieved the strength to place top 10 in an open draw comp (obviously limited by numbers in the event)

In countries like Russia or Georgia this would change as there are guys in the top ten that are all capable of world medals, as we know the levels in these countries across the board are much higher than here.

It kind of says it all that if you consider yourself a pro and can't win against or accept a challenge from a novice, then perhaps you should be staying in the novices.

With a few very rare exceptions, no pro/ elite puller should ever lose to someone in their weight class that has walked in off the street.
This was proved best as a national powerlifting champion entered the British a few years back, this guy is a very strong individual, a lot stronger under a bar than any of us, yet he couldn't beat any of the pro's he came up against, had he won then you would have to question the level of the guys he beat.

Dan

Do you not think tho that for example mens right arm at this years British saw novices beating seasoned pro with your ruling formula with 1 getting top 3 which make him elitie in such methods and even more so on the left hand with 4 novice guys taking honours in the pro classes!

Now surely this needs addressing because I think all novice classes should be scrapped and everybody should work there way up to the top it would sort out the issue novice pro to just all grades of amature which we are and the guys who want to get better join and train with better clubs

I see where you are going with this and the British this year was woefully under attended for whatever reasons people want to give, Our class was the biggest with just 10 pullers so in a smaller class of say 5/6 it wouldn't be difficult for a novice to place top 3, Brad from my club got 3rd, having been given 2 byes and losing both his pulls. Luck of the draw plays a big factor so a single event can't be used as the standard. It can be argued that if two top guys smash each other to pieces in a war then a strong novice could beat them, but would that happen fresh for fresh? Probably not. There was a rare example of a novice placing in the top 3 on the right (beating Matt Preston on the way), he then went on to win the Novice championship, but as i said, there are a few rare exceptions and i know that Matt had lost a lot of power from a big weight cut in a short amount of time, Fresh for fresh at full power, Matt would win that match 9 times out of 10, but on that day the stronger man won.

I understand where you are coming from about getting rid of the novice class all together, i have spoken about this with Neil a few times and as he points out (and I agree), the novice class exists to allow people to enter the sport and not be discouraged by losing every single match to guys at a much higher level. It also exists so that guys can take their time against others of a similar level getting more table time at comps, getting into wars and developing their skills (I think the novice had a bigger turn out than the nationals).

As regards to Matt he made a big weight cut that doesn't mean anything preparation is part of the game and if not done correctly there is no excuses.

If I got discouraged because I didn't win Dan I'd be ashamed of myself and I should quit right away pal coz I don't have the hungar and correct attitude to grace the table people do it for fun I don't so if I don't want to give my number 1 spot up to a part time Pete forgive me,I no this sounds harsh but that's the way it needs to be or British novice will become a safe haven for the glory hunters lol :-)

I was lucky enough to have a novice career as it was flooded in the north at the time but we also didn't have the debates and confusion we have now either

Also for the poor lack of numbers for the British maybe all the novices would pull the pro and let's have a proper nationals and if they didn't pull then we no there not for this sport

I agree with you in part, we are cut from the same cloth, unfortunately, the world isn't full of people like us that are motivated to do better when we suffer a set back and as such, without the novice class i think armwrestling would be on it's ass in this country.
Every sport needs it's grass roots amateur/ novice classes. Where would football be were it not for the pub leagues. Plenty of guys with dreams of making it as professional players but don't, can still have an avenue for playing their favourite sport, same for players who just want the fun of playing without wanting to take it to the next level.
Same for cricket, rugby, tennis etc etc.
Just because someone isn't good enough to play at the highest level it doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to play at all.

Though the numbers are boosted at the British Championships by being an open tournement I do think that there should be seperate Novice and Pro categories, even at the same tournament. It is a shame that there are so few people competing; if there were better numbers we would not be having this debate.

It's a really good debate guys. Like dan said I got 3rd at pros this year and it was my 2nd comp and 1st BAF pro after just 2 months of starting arm wrestling. as numbers were so low and I guess I had the attitude of got to be in it to win it I came 3rd. Is this a true representation of my level.... No!!! Do I think I'm 3rd in Britain at my weight... No!
for me it's a case of train with as many people as I can, learn different things from different individuals, I will enter every comp I can possibley enter. Novice level and at pro level. I will accept any supermatch from anyone who wants to pull me. Worst that can happen is I lose 3-0 I would of hopefully gained some good knowledge and can take any advise that person gives me back to training and work on it till I can beat them.if I beat them 3-0 then I know I'm moving up the ladder and my hard training is paying off and I'm improving. I mean if Paul maiden asked for a super match I'd still say yes as I know I can learn a lot from him. Paul would not gain anything from this but a novice trying to Learn could gain massively. I won't gain from being hit into the pad in under a second but things like. Set-up style, grip, hand position etc in a real match is stuff you can't learn in training IMO.

if two people want to go head to head then let them. If all British armwrestlers entered a comp regardless of there pro/novice status in each weight class you would still get the divide from the top guys to the guys who don't win anything. But what you would get is novice pulling novice. Pros pulling pros. And novices trying to prove they've trained hard and think they can win and pros trying to defend there "pro status" and try to prove that your not at there level yet.

To come 10th in a comp like this say with 20 pullers and pull both pros and novices and win some and lose some would be better I feel

Ill continue to enter everything I can and train hard. Learning as much as possible from the anyone who wants to give me advise.

Anyone who gives me advise to eat yellow snow I might not listen tho! Ha

Cheers

Good attitude Bradley and correct and realistic view on your position
More Bradley's needed

I could go on all night with my soap box rants :-) but the truth is we're at a poor point of pulling everybody should enter British pro its the big one chance to be champion or make your name it don't matter if you take a slapping of two along the way if you have a niggle in your toe or you can't afford to pay just ask people will help Neil will let you owe,truth is people get caught up in the hype trust me just pull no pressure no fear train smart ask if unsure give it your all,dream believe and you will achieve

dan wrote:

Should a "pro" accept a challenge from a novice?

Yes, if it's a good match-up and both guys want it, why not?

In the wise words of Nick Hall - 'Good folk just want to wrestle'

I think Bradley has a great attitude to this sport and wish him well.

I am not sure that the answer to this question should be set in stone. Common sense needs to play its part. There are plenty of good match ups possible between pro and novice available.
If it is an open event you generally know who the real experienced guys are and with the refs doing their bit a novice will gain even from losing a wrestle.
From personal experience having won the novice -100 left arm a couple of years ago, my next comp I drew Paul Maiden and Neil Pickup! I lost, but what I gained is that the next time I wrestled Neil I was not so daunted and was able to think about what I was doing , it went to straps and I still lost but I was chuffed to bits that it went to straps!
I agree that you should enter as many comps as you can regardless of who is in your category you will gain from it. The likes of Neil Pickup and Paul Maiden didnt appear overnight!
See you at the New Year cup

Hi Guys, Good to see alot more opinions coming from Armwrestlers on the site, makes the forum more exciting and good to read also what the feeling is out there with everyone.

I personally think if a novice wanted to armwrestle a pro well what the HELL get it on !! So long as its done safely, the novice seems to be a real challenge and theres plenty of support for and to the novice challenging to get them involved in the sport when they lose. (if).

I remember training with Pete White in a pub in the nineties and a guy off the street came in and challenged him there and then .!! Pete got us to referee it and set them up, the guy lost and thanked us and walked out. Never seen him since, but I feel we should of tried to get him to stay and get involved more into the sport. Also another guy from Cornwall came to a competition of Neil Pickups on Hunger Hill Bolton entering the pros and he did very well beating a few before losing then never seen again.

Good to hear views from the Captain, Jerome and Bradley, even Dan said a few words lol

I agree with Paul Maiden saying that the bar needs to be risen in this country as we need to be getting involved in matches abroad and we need to give the forigners a battle to let them know we are here.
STAND TOGETHER.
As for novice pro im not bothered who thinks I should be classed. Have pride in yourself and beleif in yourself when you put elbow to pad because your the challenger/ the only real champ is national, euros or worlds what your entering.
Good to see Julian Cini on site recently and Ted Wilson.

Ted and Baz are raising the bar in lightweights and it would be good to see some top supermatches taking place to get the blood running in our veins again.
I am holding my head in shame as work commitments as effected my training and I will see Paul in the morning to see if I can get back on track.

see u all soon

As a new up and coming novice about to pull my first comp at new year cup in the lions den on January 12th,I myself aim to have exactly the same attitude and approch to Armwrestling as Bradley (who is in the same weight category as myself at 80kg) as i aim to enter every comp i can to gain real pulling experience and learn from my losses and improve my game as it is all about win some and lose some. I am not a bad loser and i feel that competing is an honour regardless of the end result.I myself have pulled Bradley in training at my place and think this would be a perfect match up in any comp,as it is quite likely i could be pulling Bradley in the Lions den at new year cup,as i feel i would have a fair chance of winning this match up! ( could we have a vote on ME vs BRADLEY ?) I myself am up for anything whatever comes my way, and will do my best to pull to win and live my dream of making it in the world of Armwrestling.

Hi Andrew, as I said I'll always welcome a challenge but when I came to you place with the rest of the Cambridge lads it was the first time you ever put you elbow to the pad so to speak and we all had the intention of helping you develop so none of us went more than 10% against you in static holds. None of us wanted to injury you being your first time. I know you've been training with jerome so he would know your strength but there's no way of you knowing mine mate. Jerome would beat me on right but I would beat him on left. I don't pull right as of an injury and jerome doesn't pull left because of an injury. Listen to jerome and you'll be ok.
If you think we'd be a good match up then I look forward to pulling you and helping you along to persuing your dreams Andrew.

Best of luck