Is is possible to win a world title without DRUGS?

With the recent revelations about Lance Armstrong, it's got me thinking again about armwresting. Here's my question:

Do you think it's possible to win a world title in armwrestling 100% clean (WADA clean)?

Yes it's been done before by, most recently, Steve Rodgers and before that Neil Pickup (I'm not sure how these two would fair against today's top level athletes in their respective weight classes and I'm not sure how far drugs and cheats have come on in this time). Not suggesting anything here BTW..

I personally believe it is not possible to win a world title in the sport anymore without illegal drugs. I'm not promote drugs here and never would but we need to be realistic - for example, no natural person on EARTH will EVER beat Arsen Lillev under 90kg and THAT'S A FACT!

It's possible of course and I believe there's a few people who've won waf recently who aren't using anything banned. However it's worth mentioning passing the waf drugs test (or any other) doesn't mean you don't use, it just means you're clean at the time of the test.

Re: lance, all his competitors were doing the same things he was so he still won over a relatively level playing field. the fact is nominally banned performance enhancing drugs are rife in all power sports and have been for forty years plus. LIke the scandal with Canadian Ben Johnson winning the 100m for example, he was scapegoated and it later turned out Carl Lewis (who got the title and denounced Ben Johnson as a cheat) had failed many drugs tests and the US team and doping agency had covered it up for years!

That's a good question , I must say I would think its Guna be very difficult to win a world title with the level abroad and the banned substances used, ie krasimir beat Arsen in the worlds , how did Arsen pass a drug test ????? This does concern me that

Yes Steve. Arsen Lliiev is a freak of nature without the juice. Arsen Lilliev on the juice = SUPER freak of nature... I cannot see anyone beating him at -90

I would say not possible or if it was u would certainly be up against it, and like leon said just because u pass a drugs test dont mean your not using plus theres stuff out there that wont even show up.

Janis did it in 2009 in Italy, beating Zoloev, so it is possible, however i would like to see more comprehensive testing of athletes, not just a 1 from 3 of the medalists being tested. it should be done for every athlete competing, obviously the costs are prohibitive.

top 2 got tested at this years worlds in brazil.

The science of steroids is a documentary i watched that was very interesting, why be Clarke Kent when you can be super man my replay because I'm not a fucking cheat

I,m around steroids daily in the gym i have friends i train with that do steroids and it is Crystal clear to me that no matter what i do and how much i sacrifice some people will take the risks for the results they receive.

They heal faster get bigger faster get stronger faster and i simple cant stay with them but i will not turn to the dark side because its something i see as wrong in sport, id be happy if there was a clean words and a gear monster worlds.

What i know for a fact is Ive seen kids at 17-18 benching 150kg in my gym and Ive personally spoken to them they simple could not lift this type of weight with out taking what there taking at this age or at least the 2 in question could not.

Little disheartening for any one training when you see this with your own eyes or before paul starts my one eye its took me over a year of training to get 140kg on the bench.


Can you win the worlds clean id say yes, but with the amount of the top lads that gear lets face facts its going to be VERY HARD INDEED, the chances of some one doing this is unlikely but you do get the natural freaks like sanders so lets just keep trying hopfully some one can break the mold and beat the cheats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpSTq-lgI0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I61ya9twO4o

dan wrote:

Janis did it in 2009 in Italy, beating Zoloev, so it is possible, however i would like to see more comprehensive testing of athletes, not just a 1 from 3 of the medalists being tested. it should be done for every athlete competing, obviously the costs are prohibitive.

Dan, how do you know Janis is clean?? Because he's a mate? Because he looks clean? Because he seems like a good guy? None of these are grounds enough to say he is clean (I'm not saying he isn't but I'm just stating the facts).

NickHall wrote:

top 2 got tested at this years worlds in brazil.

Tested for what?? Urine test for steroids.. injected HGH doesn't show up in a urine test..

Steve Kirlew wrote:

NickHall wrote:

top 2 got tested at this years worlds in brazil.

Tested for what?? Urine test for steroids.. injected HGH doesn't show up in a urine test..

not sure steve,

Yes of course it's possible, but I think you need to realistic about the level of drug use in the upper tiers of sport. Passing a WADA test means little IMO. It just means you were 'clean' at the time, plus there are many substances that dont appear on any banned list that will gives similar benefits to recognised products. Many of which can carry higher risks, if only because they are less documented.

Re Lance; I think the big issue is that it was organised cheating with huge commercial gain and as yet he has not revealed the structure behind his titles. Some of his piers and teamates that effectively sung like canaries were given 6 month bans. IMO he's done the minimum to keep face and that's not enough to change the sport/system.

BUT....Dont be a player hater

terryackers wrote:

The science of steroids is a documentary i watched that was very interesting, why be Clarke Kent when you can be super man my replay because I'm not a fucking cheat

I,m around steroids daily in the gym i have friends i train with that do steroids and it is Crystal clear to me that no matter what i do and how much i sacrifice some people will take the risks for the results they receive.

They heal faster get bigger faster get stronger faster and i simple cant stay with them but i will not turn to the dark side because its something i see at wrong in sport, id be happy if there was a clean words and a gear monster worlds.

What i know for a fact is Ive seen kids at 17-18 benching 150kg in my gym and Ive personally spoken to them they simple could not lift this type of weight with out taking what there taking at this age or at least the 2 in question could not.

Little disheartening for any one training when you see this with your own eyes or before paul starts my one eye its took me over a year of training to get 140kg on the bench.


Can you win the worlds clean id say yes, but with the amount of the top lads that gear lets face facts its going to be VERY HARD INDEED, the chances of some one doing this is unlikely but you do get the natural freaks like sanders so lets just keep trying hopfully some one can break the mold and beat the cheats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpSTq-lgI0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I61ya9twO4o

Interesting mate. I go back to my original statement:

No natural human on the planet will EVER beat Asen Lillev, FACT - He is a great example of someone who is unbelievably blessed genetically and naturally but who has taken that natural ability and strength to a level NEVER EVER possible naturally!

Anthony wrote:

It just means you were 'clean' at the time, plus there are many substances that dont appear on any banned list that will gives similar benefits to recognised products. Many of which can carry higher risks, if only because they are less documented.

BUT....Dont be a player hater

TRUE! Not sure what you mean by 'don't be a player hater'? Why not?

Good question steve. I know personally people who take and guys that don't, I would say that the guys i know who take are 15% stronger but the main factor is there recovery time and this allows them to train to a much harder level. But I defo think it can be achieved to win without just takes a lot of hard work and dedication. It's like the old saying. "the easiest route is not always the best route"... Yer course it would proberly be easier to win a title with the use of prohibited substances but for the damage it does to your body it defo isn't the best.
There's people out there with "extremely strong natural ability" if these people train hard and dedicate themselves they could be just as strong..

What it comes down to I guess is promoting and growing the sport to the level where enough funding is available to test everyone. (and I mean a proper test not some Micky mouse half arsed test to shut people up).

Good question tho steve.

Steve Kirlew wrote:

Anthony wrote:

It just means you were 'clean' at the time, plus there are many substances that dont appear on any banned list that will gives similar benefits to recognised products. Many of which can carry higher risks, if only because they are less documented.

BUT....Dont be a player hater

TRUE! Not sure what you mean by 'don't be a player hater'? Why not?

Tongue in cheek comment but basically implying that maybe it's the system that is wrong.

Yes it is. Armwrestling as far as this is concerned is CLEAN AND PURE AND IT MUST STAY THIS WAY. Using illegal substances is cheating of the highest order.End of Story.Lets keep our sport CLEAN AND PURE.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate but one thing i can guarantee is that armwrestling is far from clean and pure.

At our level it Is CLEAN AND PURE.

Devon Larratt is supposedly clean. Yet he reached the pinnacle.

am I wrong in thinking, that if proper testing was introduced, we would see a major turn of the tables/rankings??

"Proper" testing would mean at the least unannounced testing on random athletes by their respective national federations, performed in a uniform way, globally. This is extremely unlikely to happen for many reasons, foremost being expense. Doping is still rife in the olympics where billions of pounds of funding go back and forth and testing is a huge industry.

If you could instantly remove the usage of banned performance enhancers from the sport the rankings would change, a lot!

Steve Kirlew wrote:

dan wrote:

Janis did it in 2009 in Italy, beating Zoloev, so it is possible, however i would like to see more comprehensive testing of athletes, not just a 1 from 3 of the medalists being tested. it should be done for every athlete competing, obviously the costs are prohibitive.

Dan, how do you know Janis is clean?? Because he's a mate? Because he looks clean? Because he seems like a good guy? None of these are grounds enough to say he is clean (I'm not saying he isn't but I'm just stating the facts).

Janis isn't a mate, ask Neil, he knows Janis very well, as does Craig.

Sorry Andrew, but you just haven't been in the sport long enough to make any sort of comment on the purity and cleanliness of it.

dan wrote:

Steve Kirlew wrote:

dan wrote:

Janis did it in 2009 in Italy, beating Zoloev, so it is possible, however i would like to see more comprehensive testing of athletes, not just a 1 from 3 of the medalists being tested. it should be done for every athlete competing, obviously the costs are prohibitive.

Dan, how do you know Janis is clean?? Because he's a mate? Because he looks clean? Because he seems like a good guy? None of these are grounds enough to say he is clean (I'm not saying he isn't but I'm just stating the facts).

Janis isn't a mate, ask Neil, he knows Janis very well, as does Craig.

So because Neil and Craig know Janis well and Janis has told them he's clean makes him clean?