Arsen Liliev vs Ivan Matyushenko

Liliev is just a phenomenon, i especially enjoyed his match against Bagent
this year in Istanbul. Comfortable 5-0 win.

To be honest Mark however that wasn't Travis Bagent.

It was the 250lb. untrained, unjuiced, just there to make his two grand $ dollars and get treated like Royalty in Turkey for a week Mr. Bagent.

NOT the 285lb. Hungry, Hunting, Trained.....................Juicing off his Mutha F*ckin Mind T Bagent that made his name Tearing through Monsters with a 80mph Top Roll.

Two very different individuals mate believe me, I was on the phone to Travis 2 days before he left for Turkey and he said he was feeling good injury free BUT WEAK AS SHIT & UNTRAINED.

Don't get me wrong but Arsen was brim full juiced and Hungry like the Wolf in Istanbul...Travis was topping up his tan and looking for a Blow Job

Travis is an individual mate trust me.

If he came focused and ready like he did in Manchester 2008 then the match would have been FAR more competitive

Personally I lack some respect for both men despite them both being personal friends (particularly Travis) they know that and they know why.......each man walks his own path

Cheers

Neil

It's true what you say Neil, Bagent does look a tad lighter than usual and would have made more of a challenge at his training weight.
I still think Liliev would have destroyed him however on the right.
His left would have been interesting to see, i know he dominates with it.

im glad that neil speaks openly bout juicing in the sport alot of guys forget how much of a huge advantage it is specially wen u add up how many cycles these guys have done over the years,its like grabbing hold of a terminator arm,obviously these guys are very skilled and super strong without steroids but it would be interesting to feel how strong they were b4 they hit there first cycle,maybe it comes down to whos willing to juice the most

Is it fair that people use steriods, realistacaly i know most of them will take them but, it is ilegal. when and i hope it does as soon as poss make the olypics , most of them wont be allowed in? why is it looked over in armwrestling at the moment, i mean i know these guys will be strong and skilled anyway, but you can not deny that they will be alot stronger with them i just think its cheating the guys who train hard and dont take anything , neil can you tell me the guys who do not take roids and are still big names please? Does anyone think what i says is wrong?

cheers alex

AL wrote:

Is it fair that people use steriods, realistacaly i know most of them will take them but, it is ilegal. when and i hope it does as soon as poss make the olypics , most of them wont be allowed in? why is it looked over in armwrestling at the moment, i mean i know these guys will be strong and skilled anyway, but you can not deny that they will be alot stronger with them i just think its cheating the guys who train hard and dont take anything , neil can you tell me the guys who do not take roids and are still big names please? Does anyone think what i says is wrong?

cheers alex

I completely agree with you Alex, however i think that juicing only becomes an advantage if no one else does it, if an organisation sets up and allows all participants to use then it's a level playing field. (Some people may regard pulling naturally but using creatine as cheating, but it's available to everyone and legal so you make your choice.)
Take bodybuilding for example ,as far as I know there is no testing for the Olympia so everyone is allowed to juice, and everyone does, so it's all equal and there is no advantage. It all comes down to better genetics, training and nutrition programmes.



There should be much tighter controls for comps where juicing is ilegal but this would require all participants to be tested throughout the year and as they compete, to rule out any cycling periods. This means an enormous amount of money neads to be available as the test costs upwards of £300 per time per person, imagine this at the Worlds testing all 800 competitors and again 3-4 times a year, not to mention all those who don't get to the Worlds.

thanks for the reply dan i can see your points about everything been on a equal playing field and the costs of testing
cheers alex

i completely agree wif u alex and dan aswell,iv never touched steroids ,when i was doing powerlifting i was very naturally strong in deadlifting and could comfortably pull 260 for a rep my friends who are very good natural powerlifters said that i would prob level out at around the 300 kg mark,but that isnt no where near the 400 kg plus deads we c in strong man and powerlifting,so im guessing if there is that much difference between a natural dead and a juiced dead then imagine how an arm would feel

even on a strong day, most i have done is a pineapple and grapefruit "juice" in the same glass....

Even if it was made legal there would still be individuals like myself who
would never touch steroids.
So to say m8 that it would create a level playing field is wrong, it would
just push natural athletes like myself away from the sport.
A.W. needs as much interest from new blood as possible and if the new blood
is faced with a dilemma like that i feel the sport really does have little chance
of developing into something more serious.
As things stand "each to their own".
This is my opinion, what do others think?

The reality of AW and almost any and every sport at a high level (particularly strength and combat sports) is that there will always be those who will seek to win at all costs, steroids and HGH etc. represent a shortcut and our sport is dominated by men who take performance enhancing substances some openly so not so openly.

I know some athletes who I believe are clean however I will not start naming names left right and centre on here or anywhere else because by doing so it would suggest that those I don't mention are on something.

Each man to his own and you need to ask yourself WHAT AM I DOING THIS FOR !?

Speaking for myself personally here, I simply wanted to see how good I could become and see what I could achieve in a sport that I really felt I was genetically gifted at, just me raw and real, thats it.

I was lucky enough to have a great team of guys around me at that time and stayed injury free for a long time, this and a tremendous amount of commitment to something I loved to do allowed me to realise some significant personal goals in the sport which I am very proud of. I have won, WON BIG and lost pretty big too but I have learned from both.

Armwrestling has been part of my life (A VERY BIG PART) for 23 years now and it has afforded me some incredible experiences and introduced me to many really great friends and individuals, the rewards that being involved in the sport have yielded for me personally far exceed any victories which I have had however significant they might have been. Its funny when myself and the lads from the sport get together and just chill out, go for an Indian.....whatever, I look around and think back and I feel lucky that I have been involved in something which has allowed me to have such fantastic experiences whilst helping me keep strong happy and healthy foe most of my life.

I know some people will be reading this and thinking what a sad old P NASS fair enough BUT I really mean it, all my closest friends are Pullers and I love the B*stards they are IRON CLAD dudes.

Armwrestling is what I do.

I am an Armwrestler, I am proud of that and its something I have loved to do for a long time and hope to be able to do for a long time still to come.

One thing worth mentioning is steroid usage isn't always illegal, depending on which country the competitor is from. For example in the Uk it's illegal to sell them but not exactly "illegal" to take them... (I won't elaborate further on the technicalities of how people bend the rules but it's common knowledge in gyms around the country).

It's cool Neil has mentioned it, and good to hear some straight talk regarding the subject for once! On a lot of forums I frequent mention the steroids and you're off.

Personally, I'd never take any drugs that could potentially shorten my life. For me, arm wrestling is as much a battle against and inside my own mind as much as it is against anyone else, and I don't need drugs for that battle!

I have also said in the past that the meeting of people in all the strength sports I've done since 1986 has been great. I've competed against steroid users and against non-users. It didn't make people bad people, just the path they chose.
I am an example that with a lot of training you can be the best (in the grip world for a few years) clean. In fact my World Rec Pinch Lift only got beat yesterday at a big comp in the U.S. by a kilo. Maybe I'll have to do a grip comp in 2010 to have a chance of getting this back.

Now with A/W I have fun with this, and know that at my age/knowledge I haven't got a hope in hell of being #1 (or even close), and that's not got anything to do with drugs. I'm just not good enough - fact! But boy I have a great time, and like Neil said you have to ask yourself why you do it.

A/W for me is fun and an adreniline rush, for someone else it can be something else.

God of War wrote:

So to say m8 that it would create a level playing field is wrong, it would
just push natural athletes like myself away from the sport.

I'm not saying that everyone should use it if it becomes legal, i am saying that it does create a level playing field in organisations where every athlete is allowed to and chooses to use it. If you don't wish to juice then all power to you, no one is forcing you to pull comps where juicing is allowed. Just like natural bodybulders won't enter the Olympia and win, they still compete in drug free events, and so can you.

Think Nemiroff cup, i will one day enter as a natural puller to see how well i can do against the more chemically enhanced athlete. My point is that at comps like this the option is there for me to use whatever i like to get stronger without being penalised or banned, in the same way that i am free to use creatine, HMB, multivitamins etc.

For organisations where doping is ilegal then testing should be done on all athletes and for organisations where doping is allowed you have the choice to participate against those who will dope and the choice not to. I don't think natural pullers will be pushed away from the sport, if anything it makes me want to train harder to see just how close i can come to the juiced guy's.

Also take it as a complement that if you are at the top of the tree naturally and the only way someone can beat you is to cheat, then you clearly are a superior athlete.

im glad to here that neil and david are natural as they are both incredibly strong armwrestlers,and hopefully if i stay injury free i can get to a similar level,like neil said it is alot of fun,4 me its one of the funnest sports iv done after the toothache dies down a bit lol

some very good reply on here i would never go on the juice...

there some lads at my gym on NO2 BLACK what is this

there are stronger & are now ripped...

Nick, NO2 black is a creatine, caffeine, arginine formula that is taken 30 minutes prior to training to increase nitric oxide flow to the muscles and prolong atp stores giving you more energy to train, along with increased bloodflow for recovery. It can be found from any supplement store and most companiesd produce something similar, with the best being NaNo Vapour from celltech and BSN's NoXplode.

Nano vapour - tried this - its the msot disgusting thing that I have ever had to drink! It does give a fantastic kick though and helps push through the last couple of sets.

Never juiced and never intend to, the most dissapointing thing abot this thread is that some of the biggest names in the sport are juicing.

I think it would be better for the sport and wrestlers if the athletes stayed off the 'juice'. It would be fairer and healthier, but as long as there is something that can be done to beat the other athlete there will always be someone that will go to the extreme and do it whether it be steroids, creatine etc. Personally ive never touched steroids and nether would... but thats just my choice