HOW MANY WINS DO YOU NEED TO BECOME PRO?

Do you need to win the british novice championship ? if so how many wins determine that your ready for pro?

Now that's a good question Angie. Everyone has different thoughts but surely there comes a time when your too good for the amateurs. What do you think guys?

when your winning everything as a novice then its time to step up to the pro's..

thank's NICK

I agree with nick but i also think a time limit of 2 or 3 years should be applied as it will weed out the glory hunters who are happy being local pub champions,especially the people who are novice for around 11 years and there have been a few lol

Paul you seem to have a view that is fair but readily avoided by many, hence no replys. In your best opinion, what's the difference between a pro who always looses and a novice who always wins?

Nick how about you , how long before you turned pro

Mark
you wont really find a pro that loses to everybody they may always be towards the bottom of the pile but there are always others there to share that with so ther main aim is to gain pins not 1 2 3 places,but it maybe easy for me t say it now after ive been lucky engough to win all the domestic cups but we need the bottom end pullers the guy that turns up to every event just as much as the winners...

Now that points out the way IMO the top novice is normally the guy who is fighting for the pins with the lower pro level,but there are always a few exceptions,big marv,charlie twigg,ste kirlew,tony kiss,nick waddington stu hall and even me that really ran into the pros instead of walking.

Mrs God of War wrote:

Nick how about you , how long before you turned pro

back when i started in 1996 i pulled novice & pro event i beat a lot of pros as a novice the novice comp were a lot harder in my eyes .back then what they are today & it was harder to get out of the novices because the level was that high

novices classes back then you had people like

paul maiden
nick hall
stuart hall
stan dickenson
andy barker
tony kiss
tony leigh
paul mitchell
steven kirlew & all these lads have been british pro champion plus most of these lads still wrestles today

for me when i turn pro was getting 2 pins at the world championships 2000 finland one of the matches was beatin a guy from usa in the hook it was intense...

Thanks Nick for replying and taking me for a stroll down memory lane. Like you said, " it must have been tough" with other up and coming pullers in your class. i.e. the pro's you've mentioned.

I forgot to mention David and Elizabeth horne to

Nicks correct in saying the pullers of the late 90s and early 2000 were imo tougher to compete with the novice classes were stacked with the now domiant pros and i dont think it will happen again for a very long time...there hasnt been a novice really break threw and start taking titiles medals in the pros for quite sometime,and patly this is because lack of novice compitions,lack of coaches at a high level and just there was a few magical years of talent all came at once.

coaches also who trained british champions from that time

Neil Pickup 2000-2001 world and european champion pretty much at one time or another trained every modern day puller including myself

Rambo multiple winner of world honours and british titles

Mike Haigh a candian who trained with nigel crawthorne one of the best we have ever had

Richard poole trainer of many and his best pupil his daughter Jo Poole

Dave Martin the coach of dean watson britains untouchable for many years

And then this list hit the top


paul maiden
nick hall
stuart hall
andy barker
steven kirlew

and trained champions like

charlie twigg,stan dickenson,pete hardy,keith dickenson,lee gornall,barry knowles,chris ham,chris murphy,murray steven,tom waddington,terry akers,tony lee,tony kiss,ted wilson,dean scarsbrook,just to name a few all these have been british champions or placed top 3 in the nationals

Once again Paul i really appreciate your response. Without people like Nick and yourself my hubby would probably be spending more time with me, but as of late he spends more with you guys. Seriously i would like to thank you both for the support and advice you give him.

Thanks babe and thanks guys for the insight.

?????Alright KINGEDWARD, what's your thoughts?

In my opinion there are three distinct stages in Armwrestling.

1.) Beginner, ie. Recreational would like to try guy / Fun Armwrestler, strong lad or lass (maybe from another discipline) that likes tests of strength & has a go, a real beginner first timer.
These guys need catching and harnessing BEFORE they are allowed to REALLY compete, these guys are the new blood the life force of the sport (they certainly shouldn't compete against the next group.

2.) Novice or intermediate / this is an individual who is training with a club and actively seeking to develop their understanding and technical skills. These guys are no less important and should constantly be given the opportunity to develop BUT NOT AGAINST BEGINNERS I.M.O.) also for me a novice is defined by their level of ability natural strength and or level of commitment. Not everyone can be a World Class Armwrestler and some lads may love to train for and compete in Armwrestling without ever having the potential to be a top national or international Armwrestler.

3.) Professional Armwrestler is a term loosely utilized to describe the athlete who has an established & firm understanding of the sport from the technical perspective and who is able to utilize the techniques of Armwrestling both safely and effectively against OTHER SKILLED ARMWRESTLERS. COUPLED WITH a willingness to develop & get better or at least test themselves against the elite athletes available for them to compete against in their weight class at any specific event.

I can and will expand upon this concept BUT I gotta go to work right now guys ; )

This is a well thought out and relevant point KINGEDWARD. It is also an ideology which most A.W. would agree with, however, it is unfortunate competitions are NOT held with three categories to accommodate for beginner, novice and professional. Nor is there any time limit or achievement level set by the governing body to determine when a novice MUST step up to the next level.
So when i asked the question "who's your choice for novice 2009", it's logical to conclude i was referring to individuals permitted to compete at novice level by the competition organisers. If for any reason those organisers thought there were individuals entering novice competitions who's own level was questionable, then it would be the organisers responsibility to intercede.

Opinion vary Mark

God of War wrote:

This is a well thought out and relevant point KINGEDWARD. It is also an ideology which most A.W. would agree with, however, it is unfortunate competitions are NOT held with three categories to accommodate for beginner, novice and professional. Nor is there any time limit or achievement level set by the governing body to determine when a novice MUST step up to the next level.
So when i asked the question "who's your choice for novice 2009", it's logical to conclude i was referring to individuals permitted to compete at novice level by the competition organisers. If for any reason those organisers thought there were individuals entering novice competitions who's own level was questionable, then it would be the organisers responsibility to intercede.

OK now its not just past Midnight, here we go...............

Mark, you are very new to the sport and really keen both of which are good things, you also write with moderate eloquence which suggests that you are a well read or educated man (.........that could be a good thing just as long as I am smart enough to understand what you have written).

I think I got lucky on this one though, so I'll try to respond in moderate depth.

One of the reasons I tend to avoid forums, is because I cannot type fast enough to respond adequately when a man like you, writes something like that, as at this stage the likelihood is that you do so without the first having acquired to degree of understanding necessary to genuinely appreciate the layered issues which this subject highlights.

For what ever reason, I potentially have a better understanding of the reality of these issues and I have no problem admitting that the suggestion of running Beginner / Novice and Pro Events on the same day, with current resource and time constraints is not one I readily endorse.

For approximately 21 years now, I have organized and run Armwrestling events where Novices and Pro's compete together side by side and in certain instances I would endorse the fact that this can be a good thing (ie. specifically in smaller, regional events, in order to ensure that there can be a less discouraging option for the Armwrestler who appreciates that they will never be able to compete with the likes of Rogers, Sanders, Dorohov or Palmer in their respective weight class but who loves to test themselves against a level of competition where they have an opportunity to succeed).

The Pro Events which I organize are widely recognized as the very best in the World (because they are, FACT) they are also broadcast in 64 Countries Pan Europe and are watched by up to 230 Million people, featuring a genuine mix of International athletes from mid range athletes through to the very best in the World. This is something which has never been achieved before and takes massive amounts of time, focus and my own personal, finance, so there is some truth in the fact that, as it seems opinions on the whole Pro Vs. Novice debate will always vary, I feel that my influence or intercession is not really a priority. Its not like I haven't got equally important things to focus on.

The Pro events require and deserve 100% independent focus when they take place, as I believe do the Novice events at a different level. Amateur Armwrestling at any level and Professional Armwrestling are completely different animals, try to think about it this way, in which established successful Combat sport (or any other genre of sport for that matter) do you see Novices and Pro's competing at the same event. I have never seen Blackburn Rovers playing Manchester United whilst.............The Cock & Bottle play The Red Parrot first 11 on the very next pitch ; )

In other words, whilst people want to be able to organize their own format of small event autonomously then I don't feel that the BAF should try to restrict or interfere with that, just as long as the events are in no way detrimental of the sport in general.

In terms of beginners I would actually prefer it if they didn't compete at all until they were versed in the techniques and safety of the sport by training under a qualified instructor however this is potentially over sensitive and is certainly restrictive in terms of allowing the "Armwrestling Bug" the opportunity to bite !

Sorry mate but I've run out of time (I told you I was a slow typist.......ugly too !) probably better if yourself are anyone else reading this wants to discuss the matter in more detail come to catch me for a drink and a chat at an event such as Nick's training day (which I would love to attend) and I'll run through some stuff that will probably get you thinking).

The bottom line is this the regional clubs need to farm their regions to the best of there ability to bring new blood into their clubs and train them within an organized environment, that is how I started the show rolling in the early 90's with The IRON ARM North West and IRON ARM UK events we had 40 lads per class at the Game Bird in Chorley 5 classes and THAT is where the dominant Armwrestlers of today all got their start in the sport.

Speak Soon guys, take it easy (& remember HAND, WRIST & BACKPRESSURE !!!)

King Eddy Pix Esq.

KING EDWARD wrote:

God of War wrote:

This is a well thought out and relevant point KINGEDWARD. It is also an ideology which most A.W. would agree with, however, it is unfortunate competitions are NOT held with three categories to accommodate for beginner, novice and professional. Nor is there any time limit or achievement level set by the governing body to determine when a novice MUST step up to the next level.
So when i asked the question "who's your choice for novice 2009", it's logical to conclude i was referring to individuals permitted to compete at novice level by the competition organisers. If for any reason those organisers thought there were individuals entering novice competitions who's own level was questionable, then it would be the organisers responsibility to intercede.

OK now its not just past Midnight, here we go...............

Mark, you are very new to the sport and really keen both of which are good things, you also write with moderate eloquence which suggests that you are a well read or educated man (.........that could be a good thing just as long as I am smart enough to understand what you have written).

I think I got lucky on this one though, so I'll try to respond in moderate depth.

One of the reasons I tend to avoid forums, is because I cannot type fast enough to respond adequately when a man like you, writes something like that, as at this stage the likelihood is that you do so without the first having acquired to degree of understanding necessary to genuinely appreciate the layered issues which this subject highlights.

For what ever reason, I potentially have a better understanding of the reality of these issues and I have no problem admitting that the suggestion of running Beginner / Novice and Pro Events on the same day, with current resource and time constraints is not one I readily endorse.

For approximately 21 years now, I have organized and run Armwrestling events where Novices and Pro's compete together side by side and in certain instances I would endorse the fact that this can be a good thing (ie. specifically in smaller, regional events, in order to ensure that there can be a less discouraging option for the Armwrestler who appreciates that they will never be able to compete with the likes of Rogers, Sanders, Dorohov or Palmer in their respective weight class but who loves to test themselves against a level of competition where they have an opportunity to succeed).

The Pro Events which I organize are widely recognized as the very best in the World (because they are, FACT) they are also broadcast in 64 Countries Pan Europe and are watched by up to 230 Million people, featuring a genuine mix of International athletes from mid range athletes through to the very best in the World. This is something which has never been achieved before and takes massive amounts of time, focus and my own personal, finance, so there is some truth in the fact that, as it seems opinions on the whole Pro Vs. Novice debate will always vary, I feel that my influence or intercession is not really a priority. Its not like I haven't got equally important things to focus on.

The Pro events require and deserve 100% independent focus when they take place, as I believe do the Novice events at a different level. Amateur Armwrestling at any level and Professional Armwrestling are completely different animals, try to think about it this way, in which established successful Combat sport (or any other genre of sport for that matter) do you see Novices and Pro's competing at the same event. I have never seen Blackburn Rovers playing Manchester United whilst.............The Cock & Bottle play The Red Parrot first 11 on the very next pitch ; )

In other words, whilst people want to be able to organize their own format of small event autonomously then I don't feel that the BAF should try to restrict or interfere with that, just as long as the events are in no way detrimental of the sport in general.

In terms of beginners I would actually prefer it if they didn't compete at all until they were versed in the techniques and safety of the sport by training under a qualified instructor however this is potentially over sensitive and is certainly restrictive in terms of allowing the "Armwrestling Bug" the opportunity to bite !

Sorry mate but I've run out of time (I told you I was a slow typist.......ugly too !) probably better if yourself are anyone else reading this wants to discuss the matter in more detail come to catch me for a drink and a chat at an event such as Nick's training day (which I would love to attend) and I'll run through some stuff that will probably get you thinking).

The bottom line is this the regional clubs need to farm their regions to the best of there ability to bring new blood into their clubs and train them within an organized environment, that is how I started the show rolling in the early 90's with The IRON ARM North West and IRON ARM UK events we had 40 lads per class at the Game Bird in Chorley 5 classes and THAT is where the dominant Armwrestlers of today all got their start in the sport.

Speak Soon guys, take it easy (& remember HAND, WRIST & BACKPRESSURE !!!)

King Eddy Pix Esq.

I new there was only one man who could post with such class

welcome Neil Pickup britains best

I do enjoy a good debate involving the diversifications and therapeutic apptitudes towards the concept of armwrestling.... lol

Very true Neil, opinions will always vary.
I 'll start by thanking you for the acknowledgement of my degree of understandingly. I see that you have pointed out that this COULD be a good thing. I can assure you that in my case it an exceptionally 'good thing' as i am not a haughty person and will ALWAYS humble myself if called for, also my level of understanding enables me to learn ALL aspects of my chosen subjects. Fogive me for not beginning with new paragraphs but i'm not using a p.c. and have limited space. I would indeed welcome the opportunity to speak to you in person about such matters and have made myself available to attend all of Nick a Pauls training days and comps. Respect earns respect, Nick and Paul have already done so and i can confidentiality say 'at this moment in time you have also', due to the respect shown to me at the british novices and now here in the forum. I will keep any future correspondence simple and to the point so that ALL can benefit.
Train for battle
Respect
GoW

WiSe wrote:
God of War wrote:Yeah, for some it's a looooooong time to pulling novice.Not as if a novice can choose to enter a pro only event, so neither should guys with 10 or more years experience be pulling novice.
"You posting in the correct thread GOW?"
How's this Andy?

God of War wrote:

WiSe wrote:
God of War wrote:Yeah, for some it's a looooooong time to pulling novice.Not as if a novice can choose to enter a pro only event, so neither should guys with 10 or more years experience be pulling novice.
"You posting in the correct thread GOW?"
How's this Andy?

Aaaaahhh.....

You've dug up an old post!

Nice, old habits die hard.